Trimming Brunschwig and Fils paper

Wallpaper, Fabrics, Digital Prints

Trimming Brunschwig and Fils paper

Postby paintycait » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:41 pm

I am doing some consultancy work for a client just now sourcing correct materials and putting together systems for her very excellent painter and decorator to finish some restoration work following a nasty bout of dry rot in her very lovely home.
In the course of conversation we go to chatting about the wallpaper that is to be hung in the room and it is a stunning, what looks like hand blocked, Brunshwig Fils paper that has a selvedge on it and needs trimmed. The client and her decorator were asking how I would approach it...I explained it wasn't really my field but that I knew where to ask....so here I am
Now we used to have trimmers in one of the firms I worked for but I never used them and it is a very long time since I handled paper that needed trimmed (I don't do a lot of papering these days) so just wondering your thoughts. I know how I would have approached this - I would splice it on the wall and use a Muraspec cutting strip at the back of it to stop cutting into the lining paper (and in some places plasterboard), I was also going to recommend a wheat based paste, but then last time I hung a delicate Coles hand block it was starch that was recommended sooooooooooooooo.....any ideas about a wheat or starch based paste ..which would be best?
TIA guys...this is a lovely client and a really great dec doing the work so I know everyone would appreciate any help offered
"Only lawyers and painters can change black to white"
http://www.decoratescotland.com, http://decoratescotland.blogspot.com/
paintycait
 
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:27 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Trimming Brunschwig and Fils paper

Postby Colour Republic » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:36 pm

so is it a fabric Cait???
User avatar
Colour Republic
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:19 pm
Location: Brighton & Hove

Re: Trimming Brunschwig and Fils paper

Postby paintycait » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:50 pm

Hey Rob, thanks for jumping on here.
No it's a very dark red foundation (pulp) paper, looks like a hand block but feeling it it's a light ink but very highly pigmented, makes me think it would be delicate. It has a very dark red background. It looks similar to the wallpapers used in the house of commons ...the Pugin designs, same sort of weight and colouring
"Only lawyers and painters can change black to white"
http://www.decoratescotland.com, http://decoratescotland.blogspot.com/
paintycait
 
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:27 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Trimming Brunschwig and Fils paper

Postby Colour Republic » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:45 pm

Sounds beautiful but the deccy will need to have the patience of a saint!

Firstly on the choice of paste I would experiment with some off cuts, your biggest problem is going to be staining and bleed. I have no doubt they will be lining first but you'll want to draw the moisture away from the surface as i'm sure you're aware.

I would get in a varirty of wheat and startch based pastes - Beeline/Cole & Son/Little Green no doubt the paper would recommened an American starch based paste such as Roman 880 but i've not seen anybody import this in the UK. Then set about trying to see how it reacts to each type.

The only problem I can see with double cutting on the wall is with it being hand blocked it may be quite hard to fine adjust and line up if the paper is already stuck fast to the wall, even more so with such a busy patten.

Really depends on how much of this paper there is, double cutting on the wall will no doubt work and may be quicker if there isn't a lot or it's a case of getting a brass straight edge and bench trimming.

Oh and I would advise wearing gloves too :smile.gif:

If he gets it right i'm sure it will be the most satisfing job he/she has ever done.

I have to admit i've never hung a Brunschwig paper but I know who would have...

If you know the name of the patten then it's worth trying these sources to see who's hung it.

http://www.painttalk.com/members/daarch-1284/

http://www.ngpp.org/lounge/forum.php

http://groups.google.com/group/paperhangers
User avatar
Colour Republic
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:19 pm
Location: Brighton & Hove

Re: Trimming Brunschwig and Fils paper

Postby paintycait » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:13 am

Rob,
I have total respect for the guy...his paperhanging is superb and yes, patience of a saint...actually he is just a great decorator. We were just pooling ideas. I don't think he uses the internet that much which is why I said I would get on here and see what you guys thought.

I got a phone message this evening to say that the client had phoned Brunschwig and they had suggested a wheat based paste sold by Brewers...of course we don't have a Brewers here but I sure they will ship, but wondering if it is just the Beeline one
While I'm talking paste The Little Greene ready mixed is a starch based quite like the US starch pastes and the Coles is starch based too althought the Coles is a bit of a different formulation...what I would LOVE to see here is strippable clay paste and can find no-where (I know Muraspec have one that has clay in it but it isn't strippable)
I will ehad over to those other boards...mean time I will run it past you and see what ya think.

Yes cross lining is the plan. The paper has marker points...if it were me I would cut a wee check through so I could run a little chalk hrough the check and jus be sure it all lined up.
This was my thought...
So the paper because of the slevedge is wider than the pasting table so ...and bear in mind this is me the not me the paperhanger so I am doing a bit of surmising here...so if it was me I might line the paper up so the selvedge hung over the edge of the table and paste a sheet at a time. Paste from the centre out to the edge of the table, leaving both edges free of paste. Hang the first length and then lift the leading edge and paste the wall and lay down that edge and allow it to stretch....go back and paste length #2 again leaving off the edges and hang overlaying. Lift edge #1 (and LH edge of #2) and lay the Muraspec strip under it. Splice through.
This would leave the edges unlikely to encounter too much paste on the surface, protect the lining paper below and the plasterboard...
Does all that make sense???
"Only lawyers and painters can change black to white"
http://www.decoratescotland.com, http://decoratescotland.blogspot.com/
paintycait
 
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:27 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Trimming Brunschwig and Fils paper

Postby Colour Republic » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:07 am

To be honest whenever a wallpaper manufacturer recommends Beeline they almost always mention Brewers in the next breath, although they could be refering to Albany pastes (3rd on down in the link http://www.wallpaperdirect.co.uk/wallpa ... /Adhesives ) I've had conflicting stories come from Brewers staff, some have said their Albany (Brewers own brand) pastes are made by Halls-Beeline and others have said it's made by Solvite not sure who to believe anymore :confused1:

That Romans 880 I mentioned is a starch/clay strippable just not found a supplier over here, Muraspec might be a good call for an alternative :yes:

All makes perfect sense but If i'm splicing like you describe I often also use a low tack masking tape with a wax backing inbetween the papers too.. hang on got a roll of my desk... Cantech EdgePro. That way I can paste right up to the edges if i'm worried about how the paper is relaxing. The peel off the cuts and masking, give the joint a good pass of fresh paste and seam

Love to see pictutres of this one when it's done :thumbup:
User avatar
Colour Republic
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:19 pm
Location: Brighton & Hove

Re: Trimming Brunschwig and Fils paper

Postby Aggie » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:56 pm

Just a quick fire reply..

Use the paste the manufacturer recommends in case of comebacks - the customer pays for this anyway.

For a paper this delicate, I should think hanging & double cutting is NOT the answer IMO, as the overlap {albeit temporary} will have paste on, which you will be getting on the front of the previously hung length. I was always taught to remove the selvedge first & in the dry state, either by using the Ridgely track trimmer, by hand with scissors, or with a {sharp} knife & straight edge & do it before pasting.

Something that used to be done years ago, is only one selvedge was removed - the left hand side one. The paper was hung, stating from the left, The next length would them be hung & the left hand edge was placed over the right hand selvedge - not really a good way to proceed as it would give you a hump or overlap, but nonetheless, I have seen evidence of this.
Don't piss on my back & then tell me it's raining
User avatar
Aggie
 
Posts: 867
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:08 pm
Location: Buckinghamshire UK

Re: Trimming Brunschwig and Fils paper

Postby Colin » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:18 pm

I would second dry trimming with a knife and straight edge :good.gif:
Trade1st will get Beeline Wheatpaste to you next day.
It's very stiff! and says do not thin. But when I last used it I was afraid of over-working the paper while pasting and added a bit of water anyway
User avatar
Colin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: Cornwall/Devon Border

Re: Trimming Brunschwig and Fils paper

Postby Colour Republic » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:12 pm

Aggie wrote:Just a quick fire reply..

Use the paste the manufacturer recommends in case of comebacks - the customer pays for this anyway.

For a paper this delicate, I should think hanging & double cutting is NOT the answer IMO, as the overlap {albeit temporary} will have paste on, which you will be getting on the front of the previously hung length. I was always taught to remove the selvedge first & in the dry state, either by using the Ridgely track trimmer, by hand with scissors, or with a {sharp} knife & straight edge & do it before pasting.

Something that used to be done years ago, is only one selvedge was removed - the left hand side one. The paper was hung, stating from the left, The next length would them be hung & the left hand edge was placed over the right hand selvedge - not really a good way to proceed as it would give you a hump or overlap, but nonetheless, I have seen evidence of this.


I'd agree with you Aggie but as this is an American high end paper it will most likely either state an American product (such as Romam's) or a generic paste type i.e. starch based.

I've hung many high end papers which don't even come with hanging instructions or are so vauge they have no value :cursing:

Bench trimming is of course the correct way to proceed but If splicing as the paperhanger may feel more comfortable handling the paper like that, then that's why I suggested the use of a low tack wax backed masking tape when double cutting. But of course you'd need to test that even a low tack tape didn't damage the print.
User avatar
Colour Republic
 
Posts: 229
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:19 pm
Location: Brighton & Hove

Re: Trimming Brunschwig and Fils paper

Postby Aggie » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:27 pm

Colour Republic wrote:I'd agree with you Aggie but as this is an American high end paper it will most likely either state an American product (such as Romam's) or a generic paste type i.e. starch based.

Yes, of course - sorry, I did not realize this was an American paper

Bench trimming is of course the correct way to proceed but If splicing as the paperhanger may feel more comfortable handling the paper like that, then that's why I suggested the use of a low tack wax backed masking tape when double cutting. But of course you'd need to test that even a low tack tape didn't damage the print.


I have never tried that, too much buggeration & a bit scary with surface print, or anything other than vinyl for me.
If double cutting, you could paste in the normal manner & then place a strip of 480 lining paper {do they still do 480?} along the slevedge, but then you will have three layers to go through - best to use an Olfa knife!!!!!! :pardon.gif:
Don't piss on my back & then tell me it's raining
User avatar
Aggie
 
Posts: 867
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:08 pm
Location: Buckinghamshire UK

Next

Return to Paperhangers Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest